| Shataina ( @ 2008-04-03 17:44:00 |
I'm terribly sexist and I want you to tell me how
This post started when I was reviewing my last post and what I'd written at the end of a snippy rant about men who always think women are after them: "Okay yes, I know many men don't have this problem, including probably many guys who will read this; but the ones who do ruined it for the rest of you."
Totally unfair. I know it is. If a man said to me, "Okay yes, I know that many women aren't manipulative gold-digging prostitutes, but the ones who are ruined it for the rest of you," I'd be pretty upset.
And then my thoughts went to a conversation I was having with my friend Igor and Housemate Lisa the other night. Vaginal plastic surgery came up, and the ensuing conversation went something like this (I am liberally paraphrasing because I don't remember our exact words, and I apologize if anyone feels that they are misquoted):
Me: Argh, as if women needed something else to be insecure about!
Igor: That's not fair. Men are insecure too.
Me: Yeah, but only about penis size. Women are insecure about absolutely everything that has anything to do with body image. Including our vaginas, now, argh.
Igor: That's not fair. Men are insecure about body image too. Why don't you just say, "As if people needed something else to be insecure about"?
Lisa: Okay, it's reasonable to say that men are insecure as well, but the fact is that it manifests in different ways. Sure, men may be 25% of the population with eating disorders, but that still means that 75% of people who have eating disorders are women.
I guess that's sort of what a lot of these arguments come down to: "Who is the problem worse for?" Sure, everyone is insecure about body image, but it's obviously worse for women; so is there some way in which men aren't "allowed" to complain? No, of course not. But ....
The body image thing is a good example, because it's not only worse for women; women get less reassurance about it. One of the big morals of the story, for American culture, is that women have to be beautiful to succeed. Sure, a woman can also be smart or tough or perseverant, but if she's not also somewhat attractive, people aren't going to be real happy about the rest of it. You see relatively unattractive male politicians, media stars, etc. all the time, but female? When was the last time you saw an unattractive actress? Even when an actress is called to play an unattractive role, it's always an attractive actress with a fat suit or something (Kidman in "The Hours" is another good example). Hillary Clinton may be frequently lambasted for her unattractiveness, but she's not especially -- she's just not gorgeous. On the other hand, there are a fair number of male actors / politicians / whatever who are not especially attractive (sure, few are outright ugly, but let's just say that the bar's a lot lower for men).
Additionally, in terms of direct attractiveness body-image-wise, men get a whole lot of reassurance. Who hasn't heard the motto "Size doesn't matter"? When was the last time you saw or heard a woman talking about how a man had to meet certain physical requirements to be her mate, as opposed to social ones ("I just want a man with a sense of humour", etc -- Jessica Rabbit, anyone)? Compare that to the last time you heard or saw a man talking about how looks don't matter. Can you even think of any men you know who would say that looks don't matter? I can't. But I can think of lots of women who would say it.
There's something important there. Yes, a man can have appearance issues, but a man's faulty appearance is far less likely to cost him a job or a girlfriend. Appearance is more important for women. That's the problem. No one will argue (at least not after a minimum of thought) than men don't feel insecure about their appearance; and anyone who does is missing the point. The point is not that everyone isn't insecure, it's that women have more to feel insecure about. It's that women can actually be totally screwed by being ugly; for men, it's a much smaller hurdle to overcome. It's that a woman's "total value" is far more based on her attractiveness.
But this is a tangent. I started with catching myself in a sexist remark. And I guess that's where I have to re-start: I hate the sexism I see in myself. I hate the fact that I'm actually more likely to stereotype about "men" than many of the men I know are to stereotype about "women". How did this happen to me? I catch it every once in a while, but I feel like I dismiss and forget the lesson soon after I notice it. Why?
Well, it's hard not to be resentful of the "powerful group" when you're an "oppressed group". Maybe that resentment partly comes out in a tendency to try and do what they're doing "right back at them". So men will stereotype me as weak, dumb, high-maintenance, etc.? Fine, then I'll stereotype them. So maybe getting past the rage is step one. Easier said than done.
Maybe it's partly that there are very few cultural messages about not stereotyping men. In America, we're frequently told about how wrong it is to stereotype women or be misogynist, but there aren't very many commentators who talk about not stereotyping men. (One problem may be that men who are willing to talk about this tend be be misogynist assholes -- you will notice this on any Internet forum -- which means that they automatically lose the argument; their words are automatically discounted.) I want a commentator, a cultural movement, that starts with the statement: "Yes, women have it much worse," and goes on to say: "But male stereotypes suck too." I want a cultural movement that integrates both sides of gender studies -- doesn't just talk about "women's studies" or whatever you would call men's studies.
Feminist women often talk about "men" in disparaging, we're-all-women-here tones. Even the most feminist woman can easily switch from a conversation about how she feels like her relationship expresses certain gender stereotypes, to sighing about how a man will fuck anything that walks. I want to overcome that. I want to be someone who can discuss how much current gender dynamics suck without moving from there to an assumption than all men long for nothing but sleeping with blonde Playboy bunnies.
Maybe another problem is that more men, I think, participate thoughtlessly in their own problematic stereotypes than women do. I mean, it sucks that I assume that all men want to bang blonde Playboy bunnies more than they want a serious relationship with an intelligent woman. But on the other hand, how many men would look at a big Playboy bunny poster and not say, "That's hot; I'd totally do her"? (Who aren't gay?)
But is it a stereotyped group's responsibility to actively reject all stereotypes? From here I'd get into complicated territory about whether women should never get plastic surgery, whether women should allow men to pay for dinner, etc. I'll skip that line of thought. I guess the bottom line is that I feel that I'm sexist and it bothers me. I'll end this somewhat incoherent diatribe with a
Sudden Poll: Men: What stereotypes do you feel unfairly pigeonhole you, as a man?
Women: What kind of stereotyping anti-male moments have you caught yourself in?
This post started when I was reviewing my last post and what I'd written at the end of a snippy rant about men who always think women are after them: "Okay yes, I know many men don't have this problem, including probably many guys who will read this; but the ones who do ruined it for the rest of you."
Totally unfair. I know it is. If a man said to me, "Okay yes, I know that many women aren't manipulative gold-digging prostitutes, but the ones who are ruined it for the rest of you," I'd be pretty upset.
And then my thoughts went to a conversation I was having with my friend Igor and Housemate Lisa the other night. Vaginal plastic surgery came up, and the ensuing conversation went something like this (I am liberally paraphrasing because I don't remember our exact words, and I apologize if anyone feels that they are misquoted):
Me: Argh, as if women needed something else to be insecure about!
Igor: That's not fair. Men are insecure too.
Me: Yeah, but only about penis size. Women are insecure about absolutely everything that has anything to do with body image. Including our vaginas, now, argh.
Igor: That's not fair. Men are insecure about body image too. Why don't you just say, "As if people needed something else to be insecure about"?
Lisa: Okay, it's reasonable to say that men are insecure as well, but the fact is that it manifests in different ways. Sure, men may be 25% of the population with eating disorders, but that still means that 75% of people who have eating disorders are women.
I guess that's sort of what a lot of these arguments come down to: "Who is the problem worse for?" Sure, everyone is insecure about body image, but it's obviously worse for women; so is there some way in which men aren't "allowed" to complain? No, of course not. But ....
The body image thing is a good example, because it's not only worse for women; women get less reassurance about it. One of the big morals of the story, for American culture, is that women have to be beautiful to succeed. Sure, a woman can also be smart or tough or perseverant, but if she's not also somewhat attractive, people aren't going to be real happy about the rest of it. You see relatively unattractive male politicians, media stars, etc. all the time, but female? When was the last time you saw an unattractive actress? Even when an actress is called to play an unattractive role, it's always an attractive actress with a fat suit or something (Kidman in "The Hours" is another good example). Hillary Clinton may be frequently lambasted for her unattractiveness, but she's not especially -- she's just not gorgeous. On the other hand, there are a fair number of male actors / politicians / whatever who are not especially attractive (sure, few are outright ugly, but let's just say that the bar's a lot lower for men).
Additionally, in terms of direct attractiveness body-image-wise, men get a whole lot of reassurance. Who hasn't heard the motto "Size doesn't matter"? When was the last time you saw or heard a woman talking about how a man had to meet certain physical requirements to be her mate, as opposed to social ones ("I just want a man with a sense of humour", etc -- Jessica Rabbit, anyone)? Compare that to the last time you heard or saw a man talking about how looks don't matter. Can you even think of any men you know who would say that looks don't matter? I can't. But I can think of lots of women who would say it.
There's something important there. Yes, a man can have appearance issues, but a man's faulty appearance is far less likely to cost him a job or a girlfriend. Appearance is more important for women. That's the problem. No one will argue (at least not after a minimum of thought) than men don't feel insecure about their appearance; and anyone who does is missing the point. The point is not that everyone isn't insecure, it's that women have more to feel insecure about. It's that women can actually be totally screwed by being ugly; for men, it's a much smaller hurdle to overcome. It's that a woman's "total value" is far more based on her attractiveness.
But this is a tangent. I started with catching myself in a sexist remark. And I guess that's where I have to re-start: I hate the sexism I see in myself. I hate the fact that I'm actually more likely to stereotype about "men" than many of the men I know are to stereotype about "women". How did this happen to me? I catch it every once in a while, but I feel like I dismiss and forget the lesson soon after I notice it. Why?
Well, it's hard not to be resentful of the "powerful group" when you're an "oppressed group". Maybe that resentment partly comes out in a tendency to try and do what they're doing "right back at them". So men will stereotype me as weak, dumb, high-maintenance, etc.? Fine, then I'll stereotype them. So maybe getting past the rage is step one. Easier said than done.
Maybe it's partly that there are very few cultural messages about not stereotyping men. In America, we're frequently told about how wrong it is to stereotype women or be misogynist, but there aren't very many commentators who talk about not stereotyping men. (One problem may be that men who are willing to talk about this tend be be misogynist assholes -- you will notice this on any Internet forum -- which means that they automatically lose the argument; their words are automatically discounted.) I want a commentator, a cultural movement, that starts with the statement: "Yes, women have it much worse," and goes on to say: "But male stereotypes suck too." I want a cultural movement that integrates both sides of gender studies -- doesn't just talk about "women's studies" or whatever you would call men's studies.
Feminist women often talk about "men" in disparaging, we're-all-women-here tones. Even the most feminist woman can easily switch from a conversation about how she feels like her relationship expresses certain gender stereotypes, to sighing about how a man will fuck anything that walks. I want to overcome that. I want to be someone who can discuss how much current gender dynamics suck without moving from there to an assumption than all men long for nothing but sleeping with blonde Playboy bunnies.
Maybe another problem is that more men, I think, participate thoughtlessly in their own problematic stereotypes than women do. I mean, it sucks that I assume that all men want to bang blonde Playboy bunnies more than they want a serious relationship with an intelligent woman. But on the other hand, how many men would look at a big Playboy bunny poster and not say, "That's hot; I'd totally do her"? (Who aren't gay?)
But is it a stereotyped group's responsibility to actively reject all stereotypes? From here I'd get into complicated territory about whether women should never get plastic surgery, whether women should allow men to pay for dinner, etc. I'll skip that line of thought. I guess the bottom line is that I feel that I'm sexist and it bothers me. I'll end this somewhat incoherent diatribe with a
Sudden Poll: Men: What stereotypes do you feel unfairly pigeonhole you, as a man?
Women: What kind of stereotyping anti-male moments have you caught yourself in?